Heavy Table Returns: An Interview with Founder James Norton
Heavy Table is a local, independent food resource that highlights the unsung heroes of Twin Cities’ cuisine. James Norton, founding editor, shut the publication down in 2018 and has spent the last two years as food editor for the recently shuttered Growler magazine. The resurrection of Heavy Table was officially announced on August 21st of this year.
This interview is an inquiry into where James has been, where Heavy Table will go, and what the return means for food writing in our community.
Cedar Schimke (CS): It was a bummer when Heavy Table went away, but here we are today. You’ve returned.
James Norton (JN): It's a weird turn of events, that's for sure. Journalism being what it is, in 2018 when I was looking at wrapping Heavy Table up, I was like, I'm just going to hold on to all the assets and kind of shrink wrap it. And if something crazy happens, and the Growler shuts down or I lose my job or whatever, I can go back to it and try and reinvent the financial model. So that's kind of exactly what happened.
CS: I'm curious, was that the primary reason why…? I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of factors. But when Heavy Table stopped being a thing, can you talk a bit about what led to that?
JN: It's a pretty simple story, actually: Facebook killed us. And what happened is, is a couple of things. People stopped going to websites, stopped sharing them, bookmarking them, aggregating them. More and more content was chained up through distribution, primarily on Facebook. It didn't matter if we had 10,000, or 15,000, or 20,000 followers on Facebook, if we wanted to talk to them, we had to pay money for sponsored posts. Suddenly, I have to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars a month just paying money to Facebook to talk to my own readers—people who want to read us, who want to hear what we're doing—and now I've got this wall between me and them.
And it was kind of like, okay: what has worked for us for nearly a decade isn't viable anymore. So I have two choices, I can spend 6 to 12 really agonizing months reinventing the financial model for Heavy Table, or I could just go out and get a real job somewhere.
I knocked on a couple of doors, and the second door I knocked on was the Growler. And they said sure, you can be our food editor. I'm like, “that sounds terrific. I'll do that.”
I like the magazine. I like the people. I had a great time there. I really was honored to be part of that team. Super sad to see it come to an end.
Then, I was back to square one. I got to go back and reinvent this financial model, and Patreon really was a route to do that. They have subscriber-supported journalism, rather than advertiser-supported, and so far, so good.
“I can spend 6 to 12 really agonizing months reinventing the financial model for Heavy Table, or I could just go out and get a real job somewhere. ”
CS: I feel like Facebook has finally gotten to the point where people are overwhelmed by it, and it produces more anxiety than it does value.
JN: Yeah, I think people got there a few years ago. But what's been really remarkable is just the extent to which they've been like a sort of far right wing, crazy making meme machine. If you look at their most productive posts, and a lot of the traffic that's going on, it's just everybody's cranky uncle sharing terrifying things.
And you know, I don't think that's honestly good for Facebook in the long run. I think a lot of people have gotten kind of alienated by that and I don't want to make this whole interview just me ranting about Facebook. But as someone in publishing, it's frustrating.
CS: What comes up for you in the universe of relaunching and still being in the process of getting the word out—this is kind of a check in. Emotionally and mentally, what is most present?
JN: You know, I don't think that anything has fundamentally changed about the Heavy Table since we launched 2009, inasmuch as we're really excited about and interested in stories of food and drink in the upper Midwest. And I think you can change the way those stories are presented. You can change the platform you're on, you can change the funding model, and we've kind of done all of those things.
But the people making great food, and great beverages in this part of the world are still there. They're still working on their businesses. They're still launching new products. They're still perfecting their craft and their art. And ultimately, I'm just trying to tell those stories, and I don't think that process ever gets less exciting. I don't think it ever gets old. It's always something I'm fired up to do.
“The people making great food, and great beverages in this part of the world are still there. They’re still working on their businesses. They’re still launching new products. They’re still perfecting their craft and their art.
And ultimately, I’m just trying to tell those stories, and I don’t think that process ever gets less exciting. I don’t think it ever gets old. It’s always something I’m fired up to do. ”
JN: The publishing stuff, that's just something I have to do in order to get the fun stuff out there. And the fun stuff I don't think will ever go away. As long as we're eating and drinking and telling stories, you know, I think every table has a place and we'll have an audience, and we'll have a purpose. Because I don't know that there's any other publication around here that does quite what we do the way we do.
CS: It seems like with [the shuttering of] City Pages, and the Growler, there's even more space.
JN: No, I mean, I am very frustrated by the disappearance of both the Growler and City Pages. I would agree, I think they shared a lot of the same DNA, particularly in that both publications had some of that old journalism spirit. Not just passing on PR. You're curious, you're questioning, sometimes you're challenging things.
There's a real distinction between journalism and PR and advertising. And I think that's getting lost in other outlets. I think that the division is getting swept under the rug in some places, and that's frustrating to me. I really hope with Heavy Table, we can be an independent voice and really put readers first. That's one of the beautiful things about a subscription model, is, I am reminded every day how central the reader is to what we do and how.
“I have been challenging myself with Heavy Table to get more voices from different perspectives represented on the website and in the newsletter. To make sure that our coverage doesn’t just get sucked into the same 5 to 10, mostly white well-paid chef owners that suck up a lot of the oxygen out there.”
CS: Sometimes I see news outlets passing on press releases, and they have not done the work of even changing the wording up to make it more relevant.
JN: Right. I think that's exactly right. And because it's cheaper, it's much cheaper to run a press release as a story and, you know, no one's going to get angry at you, because it's all approved by the people you're reporting on. There's no context, there's nothing that's going to make people upset. So it's less threatening, it's much more affordable. But I think ultimately, it does a disservice to readers or to viewers to not ask bigger questions and put things into context.
CS: What comes up for me is how this year has brought, at least for white folks…white folks are actually thinking about marginalized voices more and opening up to listening to them.
JN: Yeah. Speaking as a white cis dude, I mean, that is something I wrestle with a lot, and I have been challenging myself with Heavy Table to get more voices from different perspectives represented on the website and in the newsletter. To make sure that our coverage doesn't just get sucked into the same 5 to 10, mostly white well-paid chef owners that suck up a lot of the oxygen out there.
Part of why we've been spending so much time as a publication on East Lake Street, I think, between the pandemic and the civil unrest uprising after George Floyd's murder, I think that part of town needs all the love and attention and thoughtful exploration it can be given. So that's become a big part of what we've been doing in 2020.
“Chandra Walbolt from Union Hmong Kitchen is one of our regular columnists, and it’s cool to hear her stories of growing up and cooking Southeast Asian food with her family. It’s great material— it’s good culinary stuff that I want to have on the website. And the diversity thing is also awesome. But first and foremost, I’m interested in her as a chef and thinker. ”
CS: Have you sort of…chewed on how you show up in this space as a white cis dude? In terms of highlighting marginalized voices without tokenizing?
JN: Yeah, I have an answer for that, because I think about that a lot. I try to scan the horizon for anybody who has something thoughtful and nuanced and sincere and engaging to say about food and drink. And once I've kind of found people who were doing that, if they happen to come from a perspective other than my own perspective, it is more diverse, then that's exciting. I'm like, hey, can you come share that on my platform?
Chandra Walbolt from Union Hmong Kitchen is one of our regular columnists, and it's cool to hear her stories of growing up and cooking Southeast Asian food with her family. It's great material— it's good culinary stuff that I want to have on the website. And the diversity thing is also awesome. But first and foremost, I'm interested in her as a chef and thinker.
I'd say that's true for Lewis Livingston Garcia, as well. His beer writing is fantastic, and that's why I wanted him on board. But he also grew up a Latino in northern Wisconsin, and has stories about that. And that's interesting stuff and stuff I'd like to share with my readers.
“Having a lot of different perspectives contributing to the project and being part of the team helps keep me honest.”
JN: Let me add: having a lot of different perspectives contributing to the project and being part of the team helps keep me honest, because I'll write something about a restaurant somewhere—let’s say a Somali restaurant or Mexican restaurant, and I'll be thinking, okay, I'm writing what I'm experiencing, and here's my view on it. Could there be other views? Are there other ways to view this? Am I handling this respectfully and thoughtfully, and with context and with nuance?
It's hard to see all the work that goes into food writing from that perspective. But it's something I'm constantly thinking about in terms of using language accurately and also, thoughtfully. And that's a big part of the process.
CS: Yes, I’m nodding. Because I think about, in terms of telling other people's stories, especially people from marginalized groups, how do we tell their story in a way that is not just white-ising it or—I don't know what the word would be, but just making it glossy and glazed over.
JN: Yeah. It's, not easy. I mean, one of the things too, is like, as much as possible, when I'm writing, I try to show our work and say, well, we experienced this. This is what we tasted.
But I always want to leave the door open for people to interact. To say, hey, you missed this part, or, you saw this, but you didn't see that. I want Heavy Table to be really open to feedback from readers from all perspectives. That's something that's really important to us.
“Old fashioned newspapers used to have letters pages, and those reader voices were really important and they were thoughtful. I think that turned into the comments section, which is quickly turned into a sewer populated by robots. We’re trying to get back to an older form of reader-publisher discourse as much as we can.”
CS: Can you talk more about engaging readers?
JN: So, the newsletter side of Heavy Table is honestly where most of my energy goes, and that's going to a little more than 300 paying subscribers right now. And in every newsletter I put out a call to readers to get back to me with ideas and feedback and recipes. And unsolicited people will write in to me and say, “well, here's my experience as a physician, and here's my take on it.”
Old fashioned newspapers used to have letters pages, and those reader voices were really important and they were thoughtful. I think that turned into the comments section, which is quickly turned into a sewer populated by robots. We're trying to get back to an older form of reader-publisher discourse as much as we can.
CS: That's a cool concept of having a letters to the editor page, where you can read responses to articles. That’s not really anywhere on the web where it doesn't devolve into trolls.
JN: Yeah, I think the missing part of that formula is thoughtful review of comments that come in. If you just let anybody dump anything they want in the comments, it populates itself very quickly. It requires no effort whatsoever. If someone posts something hateful or incorrect, a bunch of other people jump in and yell at them. That drives web numbers, it drives traffic. And I see the financial logic of it, but I think it's bad for society. I really hope if nothing else, that Heavy Table is a positive voice, a helpful voice.
“I hope the overall impact of the magazine is a positive one. But first and foremost, I hope that what we write publish is accurate, and we try to start there.
We try to reflect the reality that’s taking place in all of its complexity, and sometimes its negativity. And then from there, once you’ve got an accurate picture of what’s going on, you can start looking for voices of hope, and people who’re working productively, and people who’re doing positive things within that context. ”
CS: I imagine that this is not the end, this is only the beginning—with COVID and the uprising over George Floyd’s murder—how do you be a positive voice in these places?
JN: I mean, like I said, I hope the overall impact of the magazine is a positive one. But first and foremost, I hope that what we write publish is accurate, and we try to start there. We try to reflect the reality that's taking place in all of its complexity, and sometimes its negativity. And then from there, once you've got an accurate picture of what's going on, you can start looking for voices of hope, and people who’re working productively, and people who’re doing positive things within that context.
That's the way I think you can have a publication that's doing something meaningful in a positive way without distorting or misrepresenting the situation, because sometimes the situation is very grim. If you read the Heavy Tables newsletters this year, a lot of it is about restaurants shutting down and the front line food service workers struggling with health questions, and the inequality of wages and stuff like that. It's kind of a bummer.
We try to balance that which is important and vital and, absolutely, the context for everything going on with other stories of people who are sharing and developing really wonderful new flavors in a lot of different ways.
James Norton’s Recommended Resources
EAST LAKE CHECKLIST REVISITED: MERCADO CENTRAL TO CHARITO PANADERIA (HEAVY TABLE)
The Midwesterner
“A pretty-great Midwest-wide food newsletter,” for which James is a contributing writer
Heavy Table on Patreon
The main way readers can get involved and support the work of Heavy Table is by subscribing to the newsletter(s) on Patreon.
$5/month on Patreon gets readers our diner-focused Churn newsletter every other Friday
$10/month gets the Churn + the more industry / restaurant news-focused Tap on alternating Fridays.
From James: “On an annual basis it's like buying a typical (or rather good) dinner at a restaurant, but that contribution gets you a constant stream of meaningful news, interviews, reviews, and reader commentary throughout the year, and helps to support local writers and photographers.”
ABOUT JAMES NORTON
James Norton is editor and co-founder of the Heavy Table. He is also the co-author of Lake Superior Flavors, the co-author of a book about Wisconsin’s master cheesemakers, and a regular on-air contributor to Minnesota Public Radio.
ABOUT Cedar Schimke
Cedar has been a journalist, brewer, line cook, cheesemaker, and facilitator (and, and, and +). She has learned to see the Slow Food movement as a gateway to decolonizing our lives, using food as the medium. Her food philosophy is shaped by visionaries like Robin Wall Kimmerer (Braiding Sweetgrass), Winona Laduke (Honor the Earth), Edgar Villanueva (Decolonizing Wealth), and Melanie Harris (Ecowomanism). She also hikes ~2,000 miles per year.
